The Man Who Was a Donkey

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No committed Christian forgets the Resurrection so completely. Prescott asked too much of me there; more than if she had made him magically turn into a rainbow unicorn. Obey God, obviously, or at least his own conscience. According to this account and the historical record Aske and co.

I finally finished reading this epic novel. It was a great read, not least for being concerned with the supernatural, even more than the historical. It certainly gave a strong feeling of the tumult of the time. The very ending was heavenly - and earthly at the same time - and full of hope. I have some complaints, or at least concerns. Is it really an accurate representation of our ancestors, I wonder? I found it hard to believe they could be significantly worse, and yet the novel seemed to require me to believe they were.

This was a big problem for me, but it might just be my perception. She was a nobody, historically speaking. The author could as easily have made up a similar priory and prioress, entirely fictional.

See a Problem?

Mr Bunker 12 September at Dear Mr Bunker, I'm sorry my reply didn't get published yesterday and I was just teasing you, although I can't see any contradiction between hyperventilating and being dear. I wasn't interested in the witches, just the issue which we've now resolved. Dear Mr Bunker, you are a sensitive fellow!

I didn't think my last was that unkind. I don't think it's contradictory for a chap to be 'hyperventilating' and dear at the same time. My dispute was not about witches per se, but only the numbers of people involved, which I think we resolved. What happened to the friendly "Dear Mr Bunker"? And now you accuse me of "hyperventilating" and say you are not here to dispute with me about witches?

Well, why did you write this then:. He is even free to believe lies. I would like to point out, however, that his comment that "the deaths and torture of tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent persons over three and a half centuries in the Inquisition mainly, but not only, women , drowned or burnt at the stake in the name of Church" is just factually incorrect I've reseached and done my best to show you how many "witches" were killed not to mention those tortured or otherwise persecuted by, or at the behest of, the Inquisition - the Roman Catholic Inquisition. A little book I'd recommend to you has not, I fear, been published in English.

It is "Hexen" Witches , by the historian Prof. Wolfgang Beheringer who has inceidentally taught at York University. It is not an attack of the Inquisition or indeed on the Catholic Church. On the contrary, it presents a serious, balanced and detailed account of the belief in witchcraft not only in Europe and the terrible consequences it has had - and in some countries is still having. Behringer explains both the evil and the good side of the Inquisition and dismisses wild claims - as does Prof. I understand a certain reluctance to discuss the issue of witchcraft and the Catholic Church or any other religioius organization.

It's a rather unsavoury topic. But if you say I may believe "lies" and call me an "anti-Catholic bigot", don't be surpised at my response.

Mr Bunker 09 September at Mr Bunker, as I've already said, I was not here to dispute with you about witches. Please stop hyperventilating about them.

Mr Bunker 08 September at Stark is merely saying that silly claims of millions or tens of millions killed by the Inquisition are false, he is quite right. Such wild claims are ridiculous. Prof Wolfgang Behringer, a widely recognized, serious historian and specialist on witchcraft, presents a list of estimated executions of "witches" in Europe. He lists over twenty countries. I won't give you the statistics for each one I could, if you wish , but here are the main ones:. Germany Holy Roman Empire: The figure for Spain, with a population of about 8 million, is It is true that in many cases the Inquisition sometimes prevented executions, and there were on the whole fewer executions for witchcraft in the Catholic countries.

The sum total comes to about 50 I'm not sure how many of these killings were the direct work of the Inquisition, but that is not my point. My point is that the theologians such as Aquinas and Bonaventura, the "Schoolmen", were mainly responsible for the widespread belief in witchcraft and hence the witchhunts. Mr Bunker 07 September at When I said I can't remember any erroneous figures, I meant that I can't remember any others from previous times - I don't know why I was thinking of that. Obviously, we've dealt with your errors here.

Dear Mr Bunker, thank you for admitting your error.

We all make them, so thanks for the acknowledgement. Without knowing the details of the crimes, or the jurisdictions, or anything else of relevance, it's hard to say if there were "too many. I'm not here to argue about witches, only the figures which we have now resolved, thanks to your good nature.

But I have to say, that even if you don't believe in Satan, surely you don't deny the existence of Satanists or witches?

These days they come with their own websites. I read a report that some have been casting spells on President Trump, which I would find very amusing, if I didn't think dabbling in the occult was dangerous. Please tell me which ones. I'm afraid I can't, as I don't have time to search, and can't recall, off the top of my head. If I see an instance in future, I will mention it. We are discussing the historical record, and as I said, the majority of this activity was done during the "Enlightenment," so you might want to reconsider your views.

I've attributed to Prof Stark figures that he has not quoted. That was a mistake - sorry. Whether there were in fact more or fewer deaths than the estimated 60 , no one knows, but there were certainly far too many. It pains me a little when you say that some "specifics" I've mentioned are erroneous.

If you want to see a true misrepresentation of the facts, look no further than the website "Catholic Bridge". There you can read:. They believed witches were causing death and destruction. And the ordinary people believed them - of course. It is also important to remember, when Prof Stark compares his figures with those of, say, the World Wars, that the Europe of the Middle Ages had an entire population of only around 80 million.

Today it is ten times that number. So, to put Prof Stark's figures into perspective, his 60 would be the equivalent of about six hundred thousand today. And I think he was referring to deaths only.

The Man on a Donkey

Figures for physical and mental torture would probably be higher still. Mr Bunker, you do go on with a lot of distractions. In this case, I'm not arguing for or against anything except the facts. From my previous encounters with you, your bigotry and arrogance are apparent. I'm not denying anything factual, but I am denying some specifics you have mentioned which are erroneous, so please stop the distractions.

I don't think Prof Stark is trying to justify anything, he is simply trying to correct the record. My comment was not directed against the Catholic church though but against the neo-Scholastics Thomists such as Feser in response to John. Stark rightly says it is incorrect that the Inquisition was responsible for millions of deaths. Conservative estimates range from sixty to over a hundred thousand but there may have been many more. From what I've read, Stark seems to be concentrating on the Spanish Inquisition though, so his figures are much lower and he also appears to be concentrating on heretics, so I'm not sure whether his statistics include those for witchcraft - or the persecution of heretics and "witches" in rest of Europe, especially in Germany, France and Britain.

I'm far from impressed by Stark's tactic of "playing down" the killings and torture of the Inquisition by stating that others did much worse.

24 August 2017 1:08 PM

He tells us there were "less than the many millions a year killed in the name of godless communism or ruthless fascism", for example. What I have written is not lies, but the historical truth. I recommend to you the "Witch's Hammer" Maleus Maleficarum, , the original "DIY-guide" for witchhunters , compiled by a deluded churchman and based on the teachings of Thomas Aquinas, Albertus Magnus, Bonaventura and others. You cannot deny it - nor can Prof.

Mr Bunker 04 September at Well, I'm sure Mr Bunker will speak for himself, but having read his many posts over a period of many years, I wonder how you arrive at your conclusion. He is certainly 'anti-religion' - a point made in many of his contributions - but I can not recall any particular religion being the target of his comments. Alan Thomas 03 September at I ordered my copy of this book, which sounds like a great read, and I hope it will arrive in the next week or two.

Many thanks for the recommendation. Mr Bunker is free to think whatever he likes. I would like to point out, however, that his comment that "the deaths and torture of tens if not hundreds of thousands of innocent persons over three and a half centuries in the Inquisition mainly, but not only, women , drowned or burnt at the stake in the name of Church" is just factually incorrect, as he would know if he had bothered to read Prof Stark's book.

I recommended this book a while back because it is not written by a Catholic and cannot be accused of special pleading, and it draws on the research of many modern historians. Let him think and say and do what he likes, but I think he is merely an anti-Catholic bigot. When I was going to post the beneath text, I sadly found it was closed.

Then I send it to the Diana -thread, but it was not appeared. Thank you Louise for asking about it and Mr Hitchens for opening here again. However or therefore , I would like to continue to go through this beautiful book review a little more. I read about this character Malle and then found that there might be some references to Julian of Norwich , an author of The Revelations of Divine Love. Ky 02 September at John of Dorset 31 August at John - I can't recomment the Feser blog. Feser if I understand him correctly is a "neo-Scholastic", writing from "a traditional Roman Catholic perspective".

So we know what we can expect from him. He is also utterly mean-spirited, abusive towards his family the woman who bore him a child and the poor child himself and filled with bitter hatred toward anyone with wealth or power. The other central characters are equally well-drawn, complex and unexpected; I suspect each reader or reading will uncover a new personal favourite. On a deeper level however, this epic is not really about these fictional or fictionalised characters at all, but about the world in which they live.

This is an England ruled by a tyrant, in which the whims of those in power can destroy the lives of thousands. It is also a traumatised nation; the civil War of the Roses is within living memory for the older generation. In another way, this is also a book about faith. Prescott explores what it means for a religion which preaches peace to be at the heart of conflict.

How can a single faith account for such different public faces as Christabel Cowper and Gilber Dawe? Possibly more significantly, how could Christianity in its essence have survived the schisms and violence of the Reformation? Her solution is spiritual, heart-felt and, whether or not you believe in her conclusion, extremely moving.

Both historical epics exploring autocratic power…. What a clever way to tackle what can often seem a very complicated period for people who are not familiar with the dynastic squabbles, it brings it more to the personal level. Sorry for not mentioning the style! I was worried the review was getting too long. I do really recommend it and found the hundreds of pages a surprisingly quick read. You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Twitter account.

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