MANS FIRST: From the Bible

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There's a reason why these stories only really focus in on their not so proud moments. If you edited together a brief story of my life with nothing but the less attractive moments end to end then I definitely would not come off well. But that's the theme of these stories. Humans have free will and constantly do their own thing. They can't be controlled. You can do miracles right in front of them. Feed them mana from heaven. Strike them down in front of one another. Free them from slavery. They won't follow God's will. Free will is the theme of the story and illustrating how it affected these people is the whole point of the story being told.

It's considered everything for a reason. Without it the bible makes no sense.

The Mythology of the First Civilization

Abraham was a chickenshit. The Pharoah and Abimalech, ruler of Gerar are two different rulers he thinks will kill him because of Sarah. The Hebrew are the scum of the earth who backslide and forget god at the drop of a hat in spite of seeing more miracles than any other people. Isaac inherits his fathers fear and penchant for lies and repeats the same mistake of his father out of fear for his life. Yet god shows that his power through grace is manifest in even the weakest and undeserving of people. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

It seems like a retelling with different names, but it isn't, Abram just had bad habits which he made up for in his older age and passed onto his son. Remember even Moses, though he did great things, was wrathful, cowardly, and a killer. David even murdered a man by sending him as cannon fodder so he would die and David could take his wife. Wife stealing via murdering the husband was apparently a very common practice back then. The Hebrews made dumb mistakes over and over and over and over again like clockwork.

And I dont see how God having mysteries such as when God tells Daniel and John not to talk about parts of what he showed them makes invalid that the bible requires intensive research to understand what appear to be inconsistency left and right. There's a big difference between the wife-sister narratives of Genesis and the gospels. The gospels are four different points of view of similar periods of time in Jesus' life.

The wife-sister narratives are the same story told with different characters in each role. If we're to believe all three actually happened then this same series of events happened to Abraham twice and the same Pharaoh twice. The much more likely explanation is that the story was told over and over throughout the ages, and like with many stories like this, the names are interchanged to maybe make them more relevant and familiar to whoever the audience is.

They were then edited into the narrative as though they happened during the course of these men's lives. I definitely don't think ancient people were dumb. These texts as you and I read them weren't edited together as they are now back then. These decisions were made by men centuries later. Genesis, for example, was cobbled together from at least four different sources.

Here you first said that there are scriptures and mysteries hidden from us. Then you say the bible often reiterates things so research can be properly performed. Just as you have here, I'm considering the conditions of the creation of the Bible and am considering those things in an attempt to further my study. The reason why I focused exclusively on the beginning of Genesis is because it's the oldest of all of them.

Those first 11 chapters come from the oldest tablets. Multiple versions even back then, edited together.

This editing together made possible by the fact that these four sources were so similar in context. I incorporated the original Hebrew in every way I know how. I tested each piece of my theory and corroborated it word by word with the Hebrew version to see if I could find the Hebrew conflicting. I tried to break it. For the flawed thing that the new Testament is, I blame Constantine, murderous, boiling his wife alive after "converting to christianity" monster that he was for hurrying Nicea into dictating what was or wasn't truth due to all the theological arguments undermining his rule.

Issue 2 is mistranslation. Sentence structure, idioms, stylistic differences, context, etc. Sentences can have different meaning depending on where the spaces are placed. Unfortunately the King James Version everyone loves with its thee and thou, completed in was not a translation of original Greek. They used Latin manuscripts translated from Greek. They compared Latin translations with the earlier Greek, found what they thought to be errors and decided that the later Latin version was right and earlier Greek manuscripts wrong even though they made those errors by translating it from Greek to Latin in the first place.

Silly, hard headed, egotistical stuff. One must seek in order to find and do our own research which is what the Boreans were credited for, which is another reason the road to eternity is narrow and few find it. I also challenge you to bring me these supposed mistakes you say the bible is full of. I am not a perfect theologian but perhaps I can clarify some issues many mistake as obvious biblical errors as I like to think apologetics are my specialty. I will happily admit when I am stumped. We have mysteries hidden from us.

The book of daniel proclaims it. There are then, according to this, likely scriptures that are deliberately kept from us or destroyed. Also those chapters are not mistaken retellings just like Matthew through John are not faulty retellings, but tellings of diffetent events through the eyes of of different witnesses of Jesus' life. The bible reiterates itself often, on purpose, so that research may be properly performed. Ancient people aren't as dumb as you might think they were that they wouldn't correct such hilariously glaring problems in their fake biblical history.

Miracles make any attempt at complete scientific or historical evaluation utterly impossible. God confounds the minds of the 'wise' for a reason. It's why many hardcore Muslims will roll their eyes at you if you try to use anything other than a proper text in the proper parent language to debate them. Also Revelations and Daniel state there are prophecies and assorted knowledge that will come to light when it is Gods will for it to. English and other language translations are not inspired by God and it was never my intention to defend them as their flaws are often laughably obvious.

King James for instance even wrote about what was thought to be the proper witchcraft of the day. The original texts themselves are what is infallible inspired Word. I don't defend anything but original Hebrew and Greek. And the only writing from God proper is of course the ten commandments themselves. No overriding of free will is necessary to inspire people who want to know and write the truth. Trust me, in those days it wouldn't be hard at all for God to easily convince a willing scribe or an already existing prophet to write what He tells them.

He wouldn't have had to make the assertion that people will be cursed if they tamper with the words and prophecies of the bible if humans are incapable of said tampering. Those who created false books or translated wrong have had or will have their just rewards. The only things that are without question are how to obey gods laws and obtain life in the world to come. The rest is mostly fluff and flavor. My apologies for not expounding on this earlier. I agree with you. I also enjoyed reading the article. It brought to mind more questions and ideas.

You - "It wasn't until the 60s that schools taught the universe had a beginning. Thanks to Hubble, "Let there be light" is now current science fact. And think of how much more we know now than then. More of the bible can be shown to be scientifically accurate. You - "If the bible is man made and god had nothing to do with keeping it intact, then none of its contents is anything but bullshit.

The texts of the bible are recorded events in human history when this God interacted with humanity. But for the words of the bible to be God's word He would have had to override a human's free will to act through that person. It's often said the writers of the bible were 'inspired' by God. If so it's still their words and created by their hands. You - "To believe otherwise and cherry pick what parts of religions you want to accept is delusional. This is why it was deemed by religions to be the infallible word of God.

So you can't argue what it says. It was established as 'perfect'. What you and I have on our bookshelves have been through numerous changes. There are hundreds of different translations of the same text. I've got one bible that says the "sons of God" in the book of Job.

Another that says "Angels". One of them calls the beings in Gen6 the "Nephilim". The other says "Giants". There are some bibles that have books included that aren't in others. It's not possible that these can be the "word of God". Not to mention the mistakes. It's clear these are duplications of the same story, just written with different characters three different times. If this was God's infallible word, that wouldn't happen. The Word does not.

Chapter II--The Original State of Man

It wasnt until the 60s that schools taught the universe had a beginning. If the bible is man made and god had nothing to do with keeping it intact, then none of its contents is anything but bullshit. To believe otherwise and cherry pick what parts of religions you want to accept is delusional. This entire discourse is a waste of time as the longer you live, the more proof of god comes to light.

The god of this world will advent soon, the prince of the power of the air through technology will speed up prophecied events, and all will know truth in short order. These are not God's words. God didn't write this. The bible is man made. But the people who did write these words, who told these stories, they actually walked and talked with God. The creation account they give is what they were told.

It's an account of the Earth's creation told in a perspective humans can understand. From a surface of the Earth perspective. And when seen that way it lines up exactly with what science says happened in Earth's history. The darkness was because of a dense cloud cover over the Earth before the land and atmosphere existed. The light was light coming through that dense atmosphere. The early Earth could certainly be described as "without form and void".

It all lines up. Genesis does say there were humans before Adam and Eve. They were the first of God's creation able to behave of their own will. The humans created in Gen1 were told to "be fruitful and multiply" and to "fill the Earth" and to establish dominance in the animal kingdom. Then God deemed all of creation "good". Humans before them carried out God's commands though it took numerous generations.

Science shows that humans did exactly as God commanded. Would they even be able to carry out God's commands? I agree with you about faith. If it could be proven then faith would not be required. Someone centuries later proving it would undermine all of those who believed through faith without physical confirmation. Personally I think it's about calibrating us. Training us to look within to find our connection to God. To not depend on our senses and scan the outside world for proof. When it's by faith, it's a choice. We choose by free will. If there were proof it would no longer be a choice.

I think you may find this interesting. Of course, some speculation but much scripture to back up the theory. I don't know that there's any harm in speculation. That's between the speculator and God. When I read Genesis, 1: Creation isn't without purpose; an accident is. There is no telling of the time it was created. That is not relevant so God left that part out. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. I think there is a great catastrophy between 1: Man went to the Moon only to find out it is a wasteland.

How did it get like that? I think that's what Earth was like. The darkness is the absence of God. What do you get without God? What does the Bible tell us about Satan? He fell from heaven. Where did he go when he fell? The Earth was without form and void. Then God moved and made it a habitable place for man.

Apparently, there was some creature on Earth before Adam, before the spirit of God moved. But God has not given us all the details. The spirit of God moved and recreated. Then in the next verses you have the six days of renovation of the Earth. He used the matter that already existed and recreated. I have faith that when God says six days, that's what me and you refer to as six days. He created light and separated it from the darkness.

Called the light day and the dark night. He created the first 24 hour day. God separated the waters. Some above and some below. Then he separated the waters from the land.

Featured Verse Topics

Then he prepared the ground for man. Who is to say that God didn't create a hydraulic chamber with the water above? Whose to say God couldn't unseparate and reseparate the waters horizontally and vertically when he pleased or during Noah. As for Adam, he created, not recreated, man. Gave him consciousness and free will. Was he the only man God ever made? God doesn't tell us. He only gives us enough details to have faith. The fall of all humans happened when Eve and Adam ate the forbidden fruit.

God covered all their needs, gave them power and they didn't have to do anything. All the food was there they just had to gather it and not eat of the forbidden. They sinned and then they were required to work for their food. Then they had to sacrifice innocent blood in order to be in the presence of God.

To cover their sins with killing an innocent animal and offering to God. If other people were on the Earth when God made Adam, were they sinners or did they have the same power as Adam? Was Eve the first? The author's purpose, God's purpose, in the old testament is to tell us who created, what he created, why he created and how we were separated from him and that the solution would come in the new testament. In six days God turned an inhabitable place for man into a habitable. I am inclined to believe when he says replenish he means there is no other human. Replenish also indicates that something has been there before but not during their time.

God uses the word replenish again with Noah. Every human was wiped from the face of the Earth and Noah was to repopulate the Earth. Does it matter if every drop of water covered the land? There are many things we cannot explain about God, his power, his miracles. How do we scientifically prove the virgin birth, the resurrection or even where we were when God created all of this? We can speculate all we want, we may have evidence to support our hypothesis, overwhelming evidence, but the truth of the matter is that you can explain away any detail you want but God is the only one that knows.

God wants us to believe with faith. He already knew the intellectual man would be interested in his book and want to bridge the gap between human and biblical knowledge. Or separate it further. That we are a curious people and like to have all the answers. If someone tells you they love you, there may or may not be any evidence to support their claim. If there is evidence, correlation does not equal causation. You cannot know for sure that what they say is true. There isn't a test they can do on the brain to tell you that.

You either blindly believe or not. I think God knew there wouldn't be a man on Earth that could prove that anything happened the way that it did. That in all eternity we could not scientifically prove a thing. He wants us to believe without all the answers and without any proof. I don't want to confuse anyone. I'm only speculating the unknown. It's better to stick to the facts that save.

Virgin born, innocent sinless Jesus, died as a sacrifice for our sins and rose again. He's sitting at the right hand of God waiting for us to recieve him and the forgiveness of our sins. He will return one day and save us from judgment. No one reads a book only to focus on the introduction. In my opinion, the middle is one of the best parts of a book and the end is the very best. My desire isn't to prove the existence of God or to 'win souls'. I'm pointing out the obvious truth. God and "evolution" are not two opposing sides.

Evolution is "how" God works. This isn't about proving God real. This is about understanding. I have good reason to think humans have been reading this wrong for a very long time. I got this from the bible. The evidence that goes along with it came later. The words of that very same bible gave me specific dates and events and locations. Everything you explained to be the only information you need, that came from this same bible.

It's all in the same book. So where's the harm? As you said, it's the only thing we can count on as fact. Jeremy, I understand the desire to scientifically prove the existence of God and to bridge the gap between modern science and the Bible's version of creation and the world's history.

If we could only prove it, then only a fool could deny it. In going this route, assuming the goal is to save more souls, do you ever find yourself struggling to believe in Him? How successful have you been in converting lost sinners with these "facts"? Is your work and research for His glory? Or are you trying to still convince yourself that He is real? I read in a comment that you believe in God but are you saved? Do you truly believe that you are a sinner saved by grace? Saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus? Do you know for a fact that you will be saved from judgement and hell?

Can you put that same faith in this article of hypothesis? I feel your playing with fire, a believer in God and a believer in evolution. It's like that old Greek race, where you put one foot on one horse and one foot on the other and then you start out. It's marvelous when the two horses keep on the same route but believe me when one of them decides to go another direction, you're in for trouble. The Bible includes the only facts God wants us to know The Bible says the only Truth, the only things we can count on as fact is His Word.

I don't care what you say Maybe he'll tell us the rest when we get to heaven.. That's the only fact I need. Your so full of shit i dont even want to talk to you any more. Is it that you think I'm inspired by the devil to trip up believers? You feel I've turned myself over to evil and am now trying to desroy others? I don't get it.

You seem to be convinced that I'm just lying and misleading like some villain, but usually any good villain has a meaningful motivation of some kind. You have, on multiple occasions, referred to the bible as "God's word". And you see to take offense when I read it and reach and different conclusion that you. So, this 'word of God' that you claim is infallible, there are numerous differing translations of the bible. Some, like the bibles used by Catholics, or the Ethiopian version, have books in them that aren't included in the ones you and I read.

Are these alternate versions also 'God's word'? Or are they versions changed by humans and not valid bibles? There's only one element I do not trust, and that's the human element. I have the utmost faith in God. I've dedicated years of my life pursuing this which tries to legitimize the bible. I'm not disrespecting it.

I'm treating each and every word with the utmost respect. I have a responsibility here to be accurate. I don't say what I say lightly. Again with the crap about gen. And shows a time line even in the texts themselves. Becouse God told them to. Becouse God did interceded on their behalf. How is anyone to believe anything you say? You sir have no credibility at all. I laid out in great detail "what part of this story makes me think that Adam was not the first human".

To repeat it here would be redundant. I invite you to keep reading. It's not "God's word". God didn't sit down and write it. If God had written it there'd be no mistakes. What part of this story makes you thing that Adam was not the first human??????????? Quit trying to over analyse God's word. Notice it doesn't say in Gen that there was no man on earth at this time,but rather No man to till the ground. What was Adam to eat since inGen No food was planted? I think it came from what was planted in and completed in Gen This first creation is were Cain got his woman from.

And I must say with all Scripture foundation anyone who teaches you any of the following is Mystery Bablon the harlot of revelation. Tithing,walt Disney world heaven ,Hell torture chamber,Free will,Trinity,Immortal soul,will see tribulation of days of revelation tribulation. I say this in love. Nothing worse than a self rightgeous fake Christian whos doctorins can be blown up with the Scripture they are suppose to be going by. And Gods word does just that! As i have said many times i have scientific mathmatical proof that is undeniable in nature.

I don't mean to offend or upset. I give you my honest thoughts so you are able to understand my perception. My intention is not to argue that I'm right and you're wrong. Only why I think what I do. In this case, why I reject your reasoning and conclusions. It should also be noted your reaction to what I've said. If you have an emotional response then that should be an indication to you that what you believe is not unbiased.

If you emotionally respond to this topic then you're not allowing yourself to truly see things clearly. It skews your perception. I have read the entire Bible, most of the Q'ran and the Bhagavad-Gita. I do not know what happened in the ancient past because I was not there. We simply do not know what really happened. It is all Theory.

God would never curse or torture people, especially children. All stories which depict God as violent, jealous, vengeful or warlike are Blasphemy. It is a projection of a violent human mind. I study the word. Here's the chronological order of the books of the bible for anyone who'd like to do this as well Here's something interesting I found that I'll most likely be doing at some point, but it touches a bit on what you asked about specifically Reading the Bible in the Order It was Written.

Borg encourages readers to explore the 27 books of the New Testament in the order they were written to see how Christian thinking unfolded over time. Ordering the texts as they were written also allows scholars to put the evolution of Christianity in a historical context. Read this way, one trend line is that the stories about Jesus become more magical over time.

For example, John, the last gospel written, has Jesus making the boldest claims about his own deity. It explains that in contrast to Adam's line, humans are mortal and only live years just one chapter after laying out how Adam's line lived for centuries.

Was Adam the First Human?

These two lines began to interbreed. Over time the 'godlike' qualities of Adam's line was diluted by the mixing with "mortal" humans, which is why the ages decrease from this point on from generation to generation, with the last of the long-living ancestors dying out during Abraham's time. I was reading your comments about Jesus and I was just wondering if you could touch on it a little more.

Can you explain some of Christ's more divine moments, for example the Transfiguration? Your perspective on Christ is definitely interesting to me, and I agree with your summary of Adam. Also can you clarify when did Adam's line lose their more godlike qualities such as the long life and how did they lose those qualities? So, in other words, you're already convinced and it wouldn't matter what it said, you'd deem it the infallible word of God.

Because that's what you were taught. No proof of it. Nothing to support this idea. You're just a 'better believer' because you continue to believe it despite the evidence to the contrary. As you said, believe what you will. And it should be specified that yes, it happened to Abraham twice AND it happened to the same pharoah, Abimilek, twice. The much more likely explanation is that, like many stories told word of mouth, the story structure remained, but the details changed over time like a game of telephone. Then, whoever was doing the editing just put them in chronological order based on if it was during' Abraham's time or Lots.

Contemporary English Version The first man was made from the dust of the earth, but the second man came from heaven. Good News Translation The first Adam, made of earth, came from the earth; the second Adam came from heaven. Holman Christian Standard Bible The first man was from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. International Standard Version The first man came from the dust of the earth; the second man came from heaven.

NET Bible The first man is from the earth, made of dust; the second man is from heaven. New Heart English Bible The first man is of the earth, made of dust. The second man is from heaven. He came from the earth. The second man came from heaven.

New American Standard The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. Jubilee Bible The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord of heaven. King James Bible The first man is of the earth, made of dust: He has delegated a small portion of His authority to man in the rule of creation. In this sense, too, man reflects God. Notice as well that it is man and woman who rule: Them refers to man and his wife, not just the males He has made. One more point should be made here. It was not until after the fall, and perhaps after the flood, that meat was given as food for man cf.

Shedding of blood would have significance only after the fall, as a picture of coming redemption through the blood of Christ. In the Millennium we are told,. They shall do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain, says the Lord Isaiah If I understand the Scriptures correctly, the Millennium will be a return to things as they once were before the fall. Thus, in the paradise of Eden, Adam and Eve and the animal kingdom were all vegetarians. No wonder we are hearing such frightening ethical and moral positions proposed today.

To put it another way, our evaluation of man is directly proportionate to our estimation of God. I am no prophet, my friend, but I will venture to say that we who name the name of Christ are going to have to stand up and be counted in the days to come. Abortion, euthanasia, and bioethics, to name just a few, are going to demand ethical and moral standards. In this light, I can now see why our Lord could sum up the whole of the Old Testament in two commands,.

This is the great and foremost commandment. How different is the value system of our Lord, who said,. Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me Matthew In my estimation, here is where we Christians are going to be put to the test. While Genesis 1 describes a progression from chaos to cosmos, or disorder to order, chapter two follows a different pattern. Verse 4 serves as an introduction to the remaining verses. No shrub, no plant, no rain, and no man.

These are satisfied by the mist verse 6 and the rivers verses , the man verse 7 , and the garden verses This helper is provided in a beautiful way in the last part of chapter 2. Again, let me emphasize that Moses goes not intend to give us a chronological order of events here, but a logical one. These become key factors in the fall which occurs in chapter 3. While as yet no rain had ever fallen, God provided the water which was needed for plant life.

It could mean a mist or a fog, as some contend. This could even explain, in part, the work of Adam in keeping the garden. It was well-supplied with many trees which provided both beauty and food. And out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil Genesis 2: Specifically, two trees are mentioned, the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

This latter tree was the only thing forbidden man. It is interesting that seemingly Adam, alone, is told by God that the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil must not be eaten. Into this paradise, 43 man was placed. While he was surely to enjoy this wonderland, he was also to cultivate it. Look again at verse Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth; and there was no man to cultivate the ground Genesis 2: When placed in the garden, Adam was to work there: He was formed 44 from the dust of the ground.

Here was no mythical garden. Every part of the description of this paradise inclines us to understand that it was a real garden in a particular geographical location. Specific points of reference are given. Four rivers are named, two of which are known to us today. We should not be surprised, especially after the cataclysmic event of the flood, that changes may have occurred, which would make it impossible to locate this spot precisely. I find it most interesting that the Paradise of Eden was a place somewhat different from what we envision today. First of all, it was a place of work. Men today dream of paradise as a hammock suspended between two coconut trees on some desert island, where work is never again to be contemplated.

Furthermore, heaven is thought of as the end of all prohibitions. Heaven is frequently confused with hedonism. It is very self-centered and pleasure-oriented. The forbidden fruit is a part of Paradise, too. Heaven is not the experiencing of every desire, but the satisfaction of beneficial and wholesome desires. Servanthood is not a new concept in the New Testament.

Meaningful service provides fulfillment and purpose for life. God described Israel as a cultivated garden, a vineyard Isaiah 5: Jesus spoke of Himself as the Vine and we as the branches. The Father tenderly cared for His vineyard John Paul described the ministry as the work of a farmer II Timothy 2: While the church of the New Testament may be better described as a flock, nevertheless the image of the garden is not inappropriate.

There is a work to be done for the child of God. And that work is no drudgery, no duty to begrudgingly carry out. It is a source of joy and fulfillment. Many today have no real sense of meaning and purpose because they are not doing the work that God has designed for them to carry out.

There is now adequate water, the beautiful and bountiful provision of the garden, and a man to cultivate it. But there is not yet a companion suitable for man. This need is met in verses The garden, with its pleasures and provisions for food and meaningful activity was not sufficient unless these delights could he shared. God would provide Adam with that which he needed most. The Hebrew word ezer is most interesting. It was a word that Moses obviously liked, for in Exodus The other three times ezer is found used by Moses in Deuteronomy So also in the Psalms

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